Curse

xs4tenx · May 18, 2012, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Earth elementalists are so overpowered right now it is completely ridiculous. Any new pvpers can hop on a ele unlock the skills and spam 1-4. You don't need any skill to run it, no tactics either, u just SPAM on recharge.

Everyone in Random Arenas that are aiming for their gladiator titles are all complaining about this overpowered SHOCKWAVE BUILD. For gods sake, you cannot even run your melee characters because every other team, there's an EARTH ELE. Professional players are running powerblock mesmers around the clock just so they can "pwn" these eles.

This build really needs to be nerfed ANET. You nerf all the good ones that players like, and you overpower the crappy builds.

ANET, do something, PLEASE, we need an update. I know you are occupied with Guild Wars 2 but take a few days out of your time and let us enjoy the last few months of Random Arenas.

superraptors · May 18, 2012, 07:59 AM // 07:59

stoning and ebon hawk needs a recharge to 8 seconds

shockwave needs a slight damage nerf, perhaps 30-40 damage per a pulse.

thats about it imo.

Zenzai · May 18, 2012, 08:17 AM // 08:17

The Stone Shealth could also used a slight armor nerf too. It's quite powerful still.

Coast · May 18, 2012, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Stone sheath is op in gvg, but its fine in ra.
Shockwave on the other hand...

Masacru Ak · May 18, 2012, 11:25 AM // 11:25

I Am agree playing with my monk , and face 2 ele earth in RA is pain. Sometimes i get so angry i dont even bother to heal .

Shockwave if you have 14 on earth you ge more then 100dmg + 9 seconds x3 condition ( weeak, blind and cracked armor ). Combination of 2 ele in Ra like Air and earth you can be the best mo in the game you will die for sure . definitley this elite must be nerfed.
Another skill that is really anoying is backfire from mesmers. if remove this hex you still take the normal damage why is that .

Spiritz · May 18, 2012, 03:23 PM // 15:23

From watching my wife in jq as an earth ele i cant really say earth eles are op - i saw monks remove the blind , mesmers casting backfire on all eles as soon as they see them and from my view as a non pvper it seemed the earth eles were having a real bad time.It also seemed that she was winning same amount as she was losing.

Backfire does what it says - so if a monk had backfire it would activate as usual on the removal of it - remember its effect is when you cast a spell and in removing it with say smite hex you are casting a spell to remove it.Its logic is similar to 100b and vos - if you stuck blind on a melee and they cast 100b they would get the additional dmg regardless if they miss or not.
The only way round backfire i believe is to use a sig to remove it .

superraptors · May 19, 2012, 05:30 AM // 05:30

i believe the nerfs are aimed at RA rather than jq and shockwave bar specifically.

makosi · May 19, 2012, 12:13 PM // 12:13

The big problem with Stoning and Ebon Hawk is that they're both homing missiles.

Xenomortis · May 19, 2012, 12:33 PM // 12:33

Stoning and Ebon Hawk have fairly substantial flight times.
Also DShot.

makosi · May 19, 2012, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Stoning and Ebon Hawk have fairly substantial flight times.
Also DShot.

Sticky aftercast delays are also substantial.

Coast · May 19, 2012, 02:43 PM // 14:43

signet of ghostly might also had a big recharge, but it got nerfed too(insta kill after 10sec), also could be d shotted

Skyy High · May 19, 2012, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

signet of ghostly might also had a big recharge, but it got nerfed too(insta kill after 10sec), also could be d shotted

Did you really just compare stoning and ebon hawk to a skill that results in a 100% unavoidable death with one successful cast? Is that now an acceptable argument on this forum?

RA has always had meta builds that are popular and powerful. This build isn't even that difficult to counter: bring anti-blind skills, bring general anti-caster skills. Touch rangers have fewer counters than this...I won't cry if it gets nerfed, but as soon as it's gone, something just as "OP" is going to take its place...

Put it this way: I'd rather deal with one of these eles than any of the meta mesmer builds that have been popular since the mesmer buff last year.

Coast · May 19, 2012, 07:26 PM // 19:26

yes, cuz ur always gonne say this:as soon as it's gone, something just as "OP" is going to take its place...

Kunder · May 20, 2012, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Let's balance the game based on the flavor of the month in RA.

DiogoSilva · May 20, 2012, 01:00 AM // 01:00

Stoning: recharge to 8s.
Shockwave: some kind of nerf.

That's all they need. And saying that earth builds are "easy to counter" is pointless. All builds in the game are "easy to counter", but as long as they're more powerful than everything else, they're still OP. And evading a stoning every 2.5s/ 5s from an elementalist that's always close to you due to shockwave is only consistently possible if you don't stop to cast your skills.

There's a reason why shockwave is only OP in one single format: because of the size of the maps. Even among good players who don't ball themselves, it's very common to see entire parties in area/ nearby range due to the lack of space, or two players getting close to each other through kiting (because they have nowhere else to run to). Or having the shockwaver sticking always close to a fragile opponent, so if a melee comes in to try to take out the ele, more shockwave spam.

The elite is strong enough against a single target (180 spike + cracked armor on shield monks? Add blind and weakness to that if melee). Being an area-wide effect followed by KDs every 5s only makes it ridiculous.

Quote:

Stoning and Ebon Hawk have fairly substantial flight times.
Also DShot.

All worthwhile elementalists bring a block stance with them, so you'll really need to rely on Magebane or a Mesmer. And shockwavers are close-ranged spellcasters.

xs4tenx · May 26, 2012, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Yes, they would most definitely come out with a more OP build than this shockwave ele, but to be completely honest....anything is better than this.

Ganks · May 27, 2012, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiogoSilva

All worthwhile elementalists bring a block stance with them, so you'll really need to rely on Magebane or a Mesmer. And shockwavers are close-ranged spellcasters.

I don't have a problem with earth eles on my close range fire ele. Stoning could use a recharge nerf but I don't think shockwave is a big deal to be honest. Just my opinion. My close range fire ele build does KD followed by fast high damage so they fall pretty quick. Can't do much if you are on your butt most of the time. They can potentially cast themselves out too.
People will probably use shockwave less once the may flux is over.

Lord Asakurra · May 27, 2012, 04:33 PM // 16:33

(This is coming from a brand new monk)

Stoning, Glowstone, and Ebon Hawk are projectiles- therefore, since about 80% of the earth eles in RA don't have brains, you can easily dodge them. Also, since stoning requires weakness to kd, it doesn't take a rocket scientist monk to draw off that weakness and prevent kd- problem solved.

Shockwave requires the ele to stand next to you to get the full benefit from it- that means if you aren't paying attention to the field you're going to tank shockwave A LOT. A lot of earth eles in RA lately don't pay attention to monks if they aren't attacking them. Pre-Patient spirit with a 20% ench=win in my opinion, because their 180 or whatever damage turns into, like, 40 damage.

Also, earth shields, anyone? If you are having THAT hard of a time against earth eles switch to an earth shield- that's 1/3 of their damage gone- problem solved.

In my opinion, though I haven't run shockwave or stone sheath ever, I enjoy healing against them because not only does it teach me to watch the field, it teaches me to pre-patient targets that are about to tank a shockwave.

DiogoSilva · May 30, 2012, 11:51 AM // 11:51

But we can't judge builds by bad players. This is the most popular cookie-cutter build currently, so it's normal that many bad players will pick it to get free wins against half the RA population. Keep in mind that this is already a balancing issue: it might not affect the better players, but it'll consistently stomp most of the community with little to no skillful usage. There's no other build like this in the entire game since dervishes were nerfed after their update.

But anyways, the better players stick close to you, and spamming Stoning very 2.5/5s is very annoying, especially when there are two in the opposing team, very frequent nowadays.

Shockwave is actually easier to dodge than Stoning, but the later skill greatly enhances the former, and there's another problem. The RA maps by their very nature lead to balling even among good players. Be it either because you're kiting or being kited, there are many times where you'll get closed together to another player, but even if alone, too close to an elementalist.

Staying from afar and dodging every 2.5s/5s, only casting your skills inbetween, and running away from melee-range eles is also something that is not possible to all professions (especially melee, unless they want to waste their time not attacking). An ele can greatly spike and perma blind even a warrior, and should the monk be dealt with interrupts or another spike, it becomes overwhelming. Do the math for when against two good earth eles: a monk that must heal and cure conditions from two sources at the same time, getting KDed every moment in between, but having to spike his heals nonetheless or else a sudden, extra shockwave finishes the deal. It's overwhelming, and if conditions are not taken care of, your warrior will be a sitting duck in the meantime. So we have an overwhelmed monk in four-player team that has the power of a three-player team. And elementalists do not lose much with their extreme melee-hate, they still have huge spike damage and spammable KD in addition to that (not even the "overpowered" blinding surge is that good).

Also, keeping in mind the bad players - or being more resonable - fairly decent players (by ra standards) that know how and when to use their skills, but haven't mastered the subtlities of dodging stoning every step they take, will lose to worse players that use shockwave+stoning. This is the majority of the RA community. I've seen extremely good monks at dodging and countering earth eles that got their teams obliterated because the other players were not equally advanced. And I'm not talking about clear noobs - but your average, fairly decent RA joe that knows the format well enough, but obviously never played some GvG or HA, or can't use some subtle tricks without overwhelming themselves.

The elite needs to be nerfed, even if only because for the noobs and casual players (majority of RA) it is the strongest cookie-cutter build out there. But against even the best players, it can still steal wins by just stomping the team's weakest link (there's almost always one or two "weaker" players in the good teams). And among the best players, stoning needs a recharge nerf too, and there's hope for that, considering it's used in gvg.

So good luck getting the perfect team for RA (or a good magebane ranger or a good powerblock mesmer for the most extremey counter possible). One "less-than-stellar" player, and shockwave hits, and stoning hits, and it hits once again and once more, and it's 3vs4.

However, there's one good thing in all this. You no longer need to be a monk to efficiently farm RA for gladiator points.

EDIT: I also want to point out that I'm not a victim of earth eles (well, ok, I'm also too), but an elementalist myself. There's a large margin between number of victories I get with earth and without it. And I don't even like earth magic (hate the one-dimensional chain). I usually use it to easily farm RA days, even without monk allies, sometimes even against monk teams (two shockwavers and a good ranger/ mesmer is way too aggressive against most monk players that play RA).

makosi · May 30, 2012, 03:00 PM // 15:00

There's too many hypothetical situations here doctored to suit people's personal stances on the earth ele issue.

It's oversimplifying to say, "you can simply kite from a Shockwave" with a full stop. There are shadow steps, KDs, after casts, snares, people to heal, people to kill and /stuck bugs to contend with. Yeah, you could try kiting but you won't be doing anything else in the meantime.

As I've maintained for a several years now, the game is not game of player skill - despite the back of the original Prophecies box. The professions are too numerous, the skills too complex and the staff too incompetent to create a semblance of balance in which the individual player's technique could be practised and honed and then become the determining factor of the formats.